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Davestwin

Sideline Club
Setting aside the NIL for the question.

How would you recommend getting to where Sankey mentioned the other day? A time where we don't have people from Yale football telling SEC schools what they can and can't do...

There are 12 on the rules committee today and only a third represent Power 5 conferences: PAC, B1G, and Big12. But we do have the Pennsylvania State Athletic Conference represented (who, by the way, doesn't even receive an automatic bid to March Madness: they're a D2 team.)
I don’t understand why one has anything to do with the other? The NCAA has already conceded it’s time for the big programs to form their own league. So, why can’t they leave and keep the conference alignments the same? Why can’t they leave and keep the number of playoff spots in line with what it takes to keep every regular season game important? The politicians and the Courts forced NIL on college football so there’s nothing to be done about that but the big programs can reign in the free agency transfer portal. All of these massive changes aren’t being thought through and as always happens when feel good policies are implemented, the results never match what was intended.
 

Davestwin

Sideline Club
I bet they said the same thing about the forward pass…

Times change. It is what it is and it’ll be just fine. To be honest, it’s already a minor league for the NFL and really there are only a handful of school able to “play the game” regardless of how you slice the pie.

I’ve never been one to support players getting paid or super leagues, but the tides of the ocean keep grinding… and it’s impossible to hold it back forever.
Comparing the concerns I mentioned in my post with the reactions of prior generations to the implementation of the forward pass isn’t an apples to apples comparison. Now, if I had complained about the rule changes having made college football more like basketball on grass or that the targeting rules have made every receiver ten foot tall and bullet proof, then you could legitimately make that comparison.

I’ve lived long enough to know change hasn’t always been good … that in fact much of it turned out to be bad. Of course, that hayynever stops people who don’t think through the ramifications of what they’re proposing from kk y plowing ahead. There are so many examples of feel good, politically correct policies causing more harm than good. Yet, it never gives future policy makers pause before they repeat the same mistakes as their feel good predecessors. You see it as a metaphor of the tides of the ocean grinding on whereas I see it as an example of how Einstein defined insanity.
 

94 Grad

Century Club
Comparing the concerns I mentioned in my post with the reactions of prior generations to the implementation of the forward pass isn’t an apples to apples comparison. Now, if I had complained about the rule changes having made college football more like basketball on grass or that the targeting rules have made every receiver ten foot tall and bullet proof, then you could legitimately make that comparison.
The point was it's a new generation of sport... it's not the same as it was in your past that you are lamenting about. You literally noted the past 55 years of your fandom being at stake...
So, when the Power Five … strike that … Power Four become nothing but a minor league system for the NFL with paid players and 16 team playoffs, then the game I have loved as a player and a fan for 55 years will not hold the same allure for me. And that saddens this old school old man.
I could easily imagine the fans of the past lamenting the forward pass rule change of 1933 as destroying the game they love and played over the prior 55 years...

I’ve lived long enough to know change hasn’t always been good … that in fact much of it turned out to be bad. Of course, that hayynever stops people who don’t think through the ramifications of what they’re proposing from kk y plowing ahead. There are so many examples of feel good, politically correct policies causing more harm than good. Yet, it never gives future policy makers pause before they repeat the same mistakes as their feel good predecessors. You see it as a metaphor of the tides of the ocean grinding on whereas I see it as an example of how Einstein defined insanity.
Be it insanity or the inevitable ocean tide washing away the shore... doesn't really matter. The result is the same.
 
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94 Grad

Century Club
You say it will be fine, but declining numbers in areas of the game show it's not. Lord knows a company like ESPN and Disney can create any numbers they want with outlandish contracts on sports and monopolizing it all, but the fact still stands more and more are getting fed up. Old money feeds college football. The younger generation is not funneling money into programs and keeping them stable, it's the old alumni and job creators from years past. You'll always have some young hotshot wanting access and paying for it or somebody in the college town wanting to keep up with the Jones' and make a name for themselves in college town circles, but the days of 100,000 smaller boosters keeping the program oiled and greased will slowly dwindle in my mind. I'm telling you, they have all but killed the golden goose and it will be propped up for a bit so people can save face, but it'll all decrease eventually. NIL will do the same. It's the new hip thing at the moment, but it'll eventually decrease, albeit still lucrative for some) once it's no longer the shiny new car on the lot.
I personally think the decline in College football interest is more do the the removal of the on campus experience be making it harder and harder to tailgate and/or more and more costly to attend a game in person... but that's a personal opinion and I have no fact to back that up.
 

94 Grad

Century Club
Setting aside the NIL for the question.

How would you recommend getting to where Sankey mentioned the other day? A time where we don't have people from Yale football telling SEC schools what they can and can't do...

There are 12 on the rules committee today and only a third represent Power 5 conferences: PAC, B1G, and Big12. But we do have the Pennsylvania State Athletic Conference represented (who, by the way, doesn't even receive an automatic bid to March Madness: they're a D2 team.)
I'm not 100% sure I understand your point/question...

I personally don't mind having a 12 person rules committee with only a third of the members being of the big conference and the remaining being of the smaller conferences. I think it adds to the checks/balance of the system; however, I also don't have any issue if the main 5 conference members want to break away and set their own rules...

So, I guess I would answer you by saying I don't agree with Sankey's statement... but if you want to get rid of Yale having influence, you need to get rid of Yale.
 
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TerryP

Ivory Club
I'm not 100% sure I understand your point/question...

I personally don't mind having a 12 person rules committee with only a third of the members being of the big conference and the remaining being of the smaller conferences. I think it adds to the checks/balance of the system; however, I also don't have any issue if the main 5 conference members want to break away and set their own rules...

So, I guess I would answer you by saying I don't agree with Sankey's statement...
There's a group in the northeast and these smaller conferences that have wanted to eliminate tackling in spring and fall camp. While that may be good for Yale, how is it good for Mississippi State?

In order to level the playing field we see the limit of 85. Since we're going to a different set of opponents and the caliber of their talent increases should a school like Florida be limited to the same amount of scholarships as a Pioneer league school?

As an analogy, it's like the town of Atmore making laws that cover everything in Mobile.
 

BamaFan334

Scholarship Club
Crimson Tide Club
I personally think the decline in College football interest is more do the the removal of the on campus experience be making it harder and harder to tailgate and/or more and more costly to attend a game in person... but that's a personal opinion and I have no fact to back that up.

Hey, I agree with you there as well. Denny Chimes has turned into a corporate affair and has taken a lot away from it. Not to mention we get to tailgate in a tiny driveway with 15 other cars slammed in there anywhere near campus.

By the way @TerryP @It Takes Eleven @Brandon Van de Graaff @50+yeartidefan and everyone else, do we wanna try and do a tailgate? I'll look at paying for the tent or whatever comes with it if we want to try and do something. Getting close now and need to hammer that out if we want to do it.
 

It Takes Eleven

Quoth the Raven...
Scholarship Club
There's a group in the northeast and these smaller conferences that have wanted to eliminate tackling in spring and fall camp. While that may be good for Yale, how is it good for Mississippi State?

In order to level the playing field we see the limit of 85. Since we're going to a different set of opponents and the caliber of their talent increases should a school like Florida be limited to the same amount of scholarships as a Pioneer league school?

As an analogy, it's like the town of Atmore making laws that cover everything in Mobile.
If Atmore made the laws for San Francisco and New York, we might have a better world.
 

Rolltide24

Century Club
Hey, I agree with you there as well. Denny Chimes has turned into a corporate affair and has taken a lot away from it. Not to mention we get to tailgate in a tiny driveway with 15 other cars slammed in there anywhere near campus.

By the way @TerryP @It Takes Eleven @Brandon Van de Graaff @50+yeartidefan and everyone else, do we wanna try and do a tailgate? I'll look at paying for the tent or whatever comes with it if we want to try and do something. Getting close now and need to hammer that out if we want to do it.
I’m in for this. I’ll pay for the meat or beer.
 

rocknthefreeworld

Century Club
This was inevitable once big money entered the game. The money that paid for those grand stadiums and coaches like Saban was eventually going to filter down to the players. In the current climate that equates being rich to being an oppressor it had to. We can bemoan it all day, but you either learn to live with it or you get left behind. Eventually the NFL will have to create a real farm system and college football either has to adapt to that or die. Superconferences like the ones I see starting to form are way to tell the NCAA to stuff it and maybe keep college football alive for a while longer.

As far as the little teams losing out, they already were. I will be 50 next year. In my lifetime there have been 22 teams that would be considered the champions in football (not counting crap like UCF). The two smallest would probably be BYU (1984) and Pittsburgh (1976) and next up would be Colorado and Georgia Tech (1990 each) and Washington (1991) (note that we are now into P5 territory). Other than that it is defintiely the Big Boy Show (USC, Notre Dame, Bama, Clemson, etc). You could really argue that the games against the small teams with no chance (even P5 teams) hurt the sport more than building a system where only the top 64 teams play each other for playoff consideration. We get a ton of meaningless games during the season (that we often hear people complain about anyway). And what is the payoff? That once every 10 years underdog win and the happens every year star player getting hurt somewhere.
 

94 Grad

Century Club
There's a group in the northeast and these smaller conferences that have wanted to eliminate tackling in spring and fall camp. While that may be good for Yale, how is it good for Mississippi State?

In order to level the playing field we see the limit of 85. Since we're going to a different set of opponents and the caliber of their talent increases should a school like Florida be limited to the same amount of scholarships as a Pioneer league school?
If we are all playing under the same rules... it's neither good nor bad for MSU. It just is what it is.

I don't personally have a problem with the NCAA organization as it stands today, but I don't really care if the big programs wanted to break away and start their own organization. Either way is fine by me.

As an analogy, it's like the town of Atmore making laws that cover everything in Mobile.
I wasn't aware Yale alone had control over the rules committee... are you alluding to them having control to force the rules over the rest of the league or is your analogy just poor ? Should Yale have control over the decision, no; but they are part of the body and should have some input, correct?
 
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64Tide

Registered
Wow, you guys are very insightful and knowledgeable about this. Reading most of this, I’d put you views and opinions vs any other forum I’ve read. That being said, Do. Not. Like. It. Will have to admit we live in a changing world. So much happening at once, paying players, changing conferences, transfer portal etc. Each of these changes need 5 years or more to be reviewed, all at once, we are jumping off a cliff chasing $ (for the “haves”) to run the game we love.
I’m afraid we will all be saying, “It (used to) Just Mean More”.
 

50+yeartidefan

Touchdown Club
Hey, I agree with you there as well. Denny Chimes has turned into a corporate affair and has taken a lot away from it. Not to mention we get to tailgate in a tiny driveway with 15 other cars slammed in there anywhere near campus.

By the way @TerryP @It Takes Eleven @Brandon Van de Graaff @50+yeartidefan and everyone else, do we wanna try and do a tailgate? I'll look at paying for the tent or whatever comes with it if we want to try and do something. Getting close now and need to hammer that out if we want to do it.
All in....
Be really cool.... put the hammer to it.... certainly will handle my share....
Alan
 

Davestwin

Sideline Club
The point was it's a new generation of sport... it's not the same as it was in your past that you are lamenting about. You literally noted the past 55 years of your fandom being at stake...

I could easily imagine the fans of the past lamenting the forward pass rule change of 1933 as destroying the game they love and played over the prior 55 years...


Be it insanity or the inevitable ocean tide washing away the shore... doesn't really matter. The result is the same.
Of course the results are always the same. That was never the point. But just because we can’t stop something inevitable from happening doesn’t mean we have to acquiesce without comment. In fact, it’s incumbent upon those of us who disagree with policies we feel are harmful to the economy or to our communities or to our nation … or even to our favorite sports to speak our minds. “Oh well it’s inevitable so I’ll just accept it without dissent” is in vogue now but that’s absolutely not a good thing. America became the greatest nation in history because of big healthy doses of dissent being recognized as critical to the implementation of good policy. That’s no longer the case and it’s one big reason why America’s in such steep decline. Perhaps the nation’s decline is inevitable too but those of us who still care should speak out loudly and often in opposition to policies that are harmful to our nation. By the way, we build submerged breakwaters to retard the tides from eroding our shores. So, if we can intervene on the inevitable changes God’s forces exert on our shores, we can certainly intervene on man made erosions of the things we cherish. On this subject, we just have to agree to disagree.
 

BamaFan334

Scholarship Club
Crimson Tide Club
Different prices for each game, but for instance here is the Ole Miss game. I can't roll with that big package alone with the Direct TV unfortunately, but the other two I can find a way.

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TerryP

Ivory Club
I wasn't aware Yale alone had control over the rules committee... are you alluding to them having control to force the rules over the rest of the league or is your analogy just poor ? Should Yale have control over the decision, no; but they are part of the body and should have some input, correct?
First of all, why would a school like Yale have any input on what happens at this level? Or a head coach at Texas State? A head coach from the Pennsylvania Athletic conference?

Look at the percentage of schools on the rules committee which from schools who, quite frankly, aren't in the same universe as Texas, Bama, Ohio State, USC, et. al.. And they should have the majority on a rules committee setting rules and procedures for schools and conference that are a far cry from being in their "peer group."

My analogy was spot on from my point of view. A smaller city telling larger cities "these are the rules you have to live by" when comparing the two is akin to comparing apples to oranges.

We only need to look back at 2020 to see a lot of these folks don't have the best interest of college football in mind. How many of these guys actually saw a football season in 2020? Hell, the B1G didn't in reality: the others just quit.

DIII making rules for Power 5 schools/conferences. That makes no sense, at all. to me. It never has.

DivisionTitleName & InstitutionConferenceTerm
Expiration
FBS​
Coordinator of Officiating William 'Bill' Carollo
Big Ten Conference
Big Ten Conference
AUG 2022​
FBS​
Head Football Coach David Shaw
Stanford University
Pac-12 Conference
AUG 2022​
FBS​
Head Football Coach Jacob Spavital
Texas State University
Sun Belt Conference
AUG 2021*​
FBS​
Senior Associate AD- Development & Administration Zac Selmon
University of Oklahoma
Big 12 Conference
AUG 2023​
FCS​
Head Coach - Football Anthony Reno
Yale University
The Ivy League
AUG 2021​
FCS​
Head Football Coach Demario Warren
Southern Utah University
Big Sky Conference
AUG 2024​
II​
AD, Director of Athletics Josh Looney
Missouri Western State University
Mid-America Intercollegiate Athletics Association
AUG 2022​
II​
Head Football Coach Bill Zwaan
West Chester University of Pennsylvania
Pennsylvania State Athletic Conference
AUG 2022​
II​
SWA, Assistant Commissioner Kirsten Ford
Rocky Mountain Athletic Conference
Rocky Mountain Athletic Conference
AUG 2023​
III​
AD Douglas Zipp
Ohio Wesleyan University
North Coast Athletic Conference
AUG 2022​
III​
Assistant Football Coach - Offensive Coordinator Stan Hodgin
Shenandoah University
Old Dominion Athletic Conf.
AUG 2024​
III​
Head Coach John Pearce
Sul Ross State University
American Southwest Conference
AUG 2024​
 

94 Grad

Century Club
First of all, why would a school like Yale have any input on what happens at this level? Or a head coach at Texas State? A head coach from the Pennsylvania Athletic conference?

Look at the percentage of schools on the rules committee which from schools who, quite frankly, aren't in the same universe as Texas, Bama, Ohio State, USC, et. al.. And they should have the majority on a rules committee setting rules and procedures for schools and conference that are a far cry from being in their "peer group."

My analogy was spot on from my point of view. A smaller city telling larger cities "these are the rules you have to live by" when comparing the two is akin to comparing apples to oranges.

We only need to look back at 2020 to see a lot of these folks don't have the best interest of college football in mind. How many of these guys actually saw a football season in 2020? Hell, the B1G didn't in reality: the others just quit.

DIII making rules for Power 5 schools/conferences. That makes no sense, at all. to me. It never has.

DivisionTitleName & InstitutionConferenceTerm
Expiration
FBS​
Coordinator of Officiating William 'Bill' Carollo
Big Ten Conference
Big Ten Conference
AUG 2022​
FBS​
Head Football Coach David Shaw
Stanford University
Pac-12 Conference
AUG 2022​
FBS​
Head Football Coach Jacob Spavital
Texas State University
Sun Belt Conference
AUG 2021*​
FBS​
Senior Associate AD- Development & Administration Zac Selmon
University of Oklahoma
Big 12 Conference
AUG 2023​
FCS​
Head Coach - Football Anthony Reno
Yale University
The Ivy League
AUG 2021​
FCS​
Head Football Coach Demario Warren
Southern Utah University
Big Sky Conference
AUG 2024​
II​
AD, Director of Athletics Josh Looney
Missouri Western State University
Mid-America Intercollegiate Athletics Association
AUG 2022​
II​
Head Football Coach Bill Zwaan
West Chester University of Pennsylvania
Pennsylvania State Athletic Conference
AUG 2022​
II​
SWA, Assistant Commissioner Kirsten Ford
Rocky Mountain Athletic Conference
Rocky Mountain Athletic Conference
AUG 2023​
III​
AD Douglas Zipp
Ohio Wesleyan University
North Coast Athletic Conference
AUG 2022​
III​
Assistant Football Coach - Offensive Coordinator Stan Hodgin
Shenandoah University
Old Dominion Athletic Conf.
AUG 2024​
III​
Head Coach John Pearce
Sul Ross State University
American Southwest Conference
AUG 2024​
I think you're barking up the wrong tree...

I did say if you don't want Yale to have influence... you have to remove Yale. If the SEC and other programs want to make their own league, so be it... but as it stands now I have no issue for Yale having influence. BTW, influence isn't the same thing a control, which they do not have.
 

94 Grad

Century Club
Of course the results are always the same. That was never the point. But just because we can’t stop something inevitable from happening doesn’t mean we have to acquiesce without comment. In fact, it’s incumbent upon those of us who disagree with policies we feel are harmful to the economy or to our communities or to our nation … or even to our favorite sports to speak our minds. “Oh well it’s inevitable so I’ll just accept it without dissent” is in vogue now but that’s absolutely not a good thing. America became the greatest nation in history because of big healthy doses of dissent being recognized as critical to the implementation of good policy. That’s no longer the case and it’s one big reason why America’s in such steep decline. Perhaps the nation’s decline is inevitable too but those of us who still care should speak out loudly and often in opposition to policies that are harmful to our nation. By the way, we build submerged breakwaters to retard the tides from eroding our shores. So, if we can intervene on the inevitable changes God’s forces exert on our shores, we can certainly intervene on man made erosions of the things we cherish. On this subject, we just have to agree to disagree.
Read some history... America has been bitching and fighting about the same stuff every since it because a country... maybe even before it was a country... What we see now is no different than what we saw over a standing army, over a treasury, the election of 1876... and on and on.

My point is that in 55 years the "Fans" of college football will be bitching about some other change in the game that will "destroy" the game "they've loved and played".
 
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