| CURRENT EVENTS Roe vs Wade and all that comes with this story. This guy. I am at a loss for words.

SoCalPatrick

Thread Starter
Sideline Club
This is a change of tone for me on here but I don’t think anybody actually believes fetuses are people. I think they’re lying. There are almost 1,000,000 miscarriages each year in America, it happens to almost everybody. But we’re not constantly getting invited to the funerals.

Nobody who says “abortion is murder” is out carrying signs that “and miscarriages are suicide.”

Nobody who says a fetus is a life that god wanted to bring into the world talks about how a million times a year he just, uh, changes his mind.

Nobody’s passing laws to reduce miscarriages, they’re not holding rallies, and Justice Alito gave ZERO DOLLARS of his $4 million net worth toward research on aneuploidy, which causes 60% of them.

We rarely talk about miscarriages even though they happen to basically everybody you know. They’re devastating, but not because of souls. Nobody talks about how they can’t wait to be reunited with their fetus in heaven because they don’t actually believe that.
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Colbert show. I'm sure that shocks you guys.

 

Davestwin

Sideline Club
This is a change of tone for me on here but I don’t think anybody actually believes fetuses are people. I think they’re lying. There are almost 1,000,000 miscarriages each year in America, it happens to almost everybody. But we’re not constantly getting invited to the funerals.

Nobody who says “abortion is murder” is out carrying signs that “and miscarriages are suicide.”

Nobody who says a fetus is a life that god wanted to bring into the world talks about how a million times a year he just, uh, changes his mind.

Nobody’s passing laws to reduce miscarriages, they’re not holding rallies, and Justice Alito gave ZERO DOLLARS of his $4 million net worth toward research on aneuploidy, which causes 60% of them.

We rarely talk about miscarriages even though they happen to basically everybody you know. They’re devastating, but not because of souls. Nobody talks about how they can’t wait to be reunited with their fetus in heaven because they don’t actually believe that.
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Colbert show. I'm sure that shocks you guys.

I do consider fetuses “people” and my wife and I do long to see the child we lost to a miscarriage in heaven. Personally, I don’t know how anyone can view videos of fetuses in the womb and consider them anything other than “people”. One thing I know for sure … I’m not going to change your beliefs and you’re not going to change mine … especially on this kind of forum. I wouldn’t have commented at all if you hadn’t used “nobody” several times.
 

ElephantStomp

Bama Club
I’m ok catching the hell that I’ll catch for my opinion on this.

Men have no business determining what a woman does or doesn’t do with their body. If dudes are against abortion then they should be required to get a vasectomy and can only get it reversed with the approval of a consensual partner. This requiring childbirth is archaic as hell. And the “then don’t have sex” thing is just as archaic because we all know there are a lot of dudes that don’t listen to no.

Do I believe life begins at conception? No, not even close, they’re a clump of cells and those cells don’t equate to a human.

Overturning Roe v Wade isn’t going eliminate abortions, it’s only going to eliminate safe abortions
 

TerryP

Misomaniac
Ivory Club
How’s it not true?

I’ve seen it on the news, but haven’t personally.
I'll answer this in the form of a few questions. (My response earlier should have been more clear.)

Where is making abortion illegal even in the discussion here? It's not. It's returning the decisions to the states.

If we take a state X where they have limited the terms of when an abortion can happen (I believe MS is pushing for no later than 12 weeks) that doesn't impede, anyone, from traveling a few hours to state Y to get an abortion at 14 weeks. It's not illegal, it's restricted.

The premise of your post is this SCOTUS decision is making abortion illegal. That's the narrative being pushed by the media. But that's not what the preliminary draft was stating. It was saying it shouldn't be a Federal decision, but should be left to each individual state.

I'll agree if they made abortion illegal, nationwide, in any form we'd see this hit the 'black market,' if you will. But that is not what's going on here. That's not a false narrative being pushed (overturning R vs W,) it's a down right lie.

From what I've read in state laws, Arkansas has one of the most restrictive on the books. But, it's not illegal. (IE: If it endangers the mothers life.) Their statutory law states it's illegal after "the quickening." That occurs, normally, between 12-16 weeks.

This isn't the best example, but I think it's close to an apropos comparison. It's not illegal to have a drink, then drive. It becomes illegal after a period of time (the amount consumed.) In Arkansas it wouldn't be illegal if it happened in the 10th week. It would be in the 16th week.

Personally, I'm all for anything that removes the government from involvement in my life and others. If we'll allow waxing into a religious area, those who do will face their judgment. I believe in free will, choice. Do what you want. I'm not responsible for your decisions.

However, some of the bills being floated through legislatures I find disturbing. I saw one legislator last week where her bill had no time frame: up until actual birth.

That's part of the reason I asked earlier about people being charged with double homicide when the mother and unborn baby are both killed. If that baby is viable, people will go to jail for murder. But we're seeing a push that disregards the viability of the unborn baby. To me, that's crossing a line that shouldn't be encroached upon.
 

rocknthefreeworld

Century Club
Men have no business determining what a woman does or doesn’t do with their body. If dudes are against abortion then they should be required to get a vasectomy and can only get it reversed with the approval of a consensual partner
I see this argument all of the time but it is a bad one. Vasectomy is not 100% reversible in all cases. It is also not 100% promised to work every time. And it can actually reverse itself in some cases.

Personally, I don't care about anyone having an abortion up to a point. Roe v Wade was a terrible legal decision, but the trimester framework it put into place is not that bad to be honest.
 
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planomateo

Scholarship Club
This has to be the most divisive topics in the United States.

Life begins at inception. I don't know how anyone could argue differently. Those who choose to abort a life will have to live with that decision for the rest of their life.

I've been pro-choice for probably 3 decades.

And all for States deciding how to handle this, not the Federal government.
 
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ElephantStomp

Bama Club
I'll answer this in the form of a few questions. (My response earlier should have been more clear.)

Where is making abortion illegal even in the discussion here? It's not. It's returning the decisions to the states.

If we take a state X where they have limited the terms of when an abortion can happen (I believe MS is pushing for no later than 12 weeks) that doesn't impede, anyone, from traveling a few hours to state Y to get an abortion at 14 weeks. It's not illegal, it's restricted.

The premise of your post is this SCOTUS decision is making abortion illegal. That's the narrative being pushed by the media. But that's not what the preliminary draft was stating. It was saying it shouldn't be a Federal decision, but should be left to each individual state.

I'll agree if they made abortion illegal, nationwide, in any form we'd see this hit the 'black market,' if you will. But that is not what's going on here. That's not a false narrative being pushed (overturning R vs W,) it's a down right lie.

From what I've read in state laws, Arkansas has one of the most restrictive on the books. But, it's not illegal. (IE: If it endangers the mothers life.) Their statutory law states it's illegal after "the quickening." That occurs, normally, between 12-16 weeks.

This isn't the best example, but I think it's close to an apropos comparison. It's not illegal to have a drink, then drive. It becomes illegal after a period of time (the amount consumed.) In Arkansas it wouldn't be illegal if it happened in the 10th week. It would be in the 16th week.

Personally, I'm all for anything that removes the government from involvement in my life and others. If we'll allow waxing into a religious area, those who do will face their judgment. I believe in free will, choice. Do what you want. I'm not responsible for your decisions.

However, some of the bills being floated through legislatures I find disturbing. I saw one legislator last week where her bill had no time frame: up until actual birth.

That's part of the reason I asked earlier about people being charged with double homicide when the mother and unborn baby are both killed. If that baby is viable, people will go to jail for murder. But we're seeing a push that disregards the viability of the unborn baby. To me, that's crossing a line that shouldn't be encroached upon.
I’m fine with a time frame, whether that’s 12 weeks or whatever, but there was no reason at all to reverse R v W. Men shouldn’t be deciding what a woman can and can’t do with her body and this is essentially forced birth. Just as you’re saying there’s a push to disregard the unborn fetus/baby, there’s a push by the right to rid women of body autonomy & force them to give birth. I simply don’t see why there needed to be a change in the law.

MS and LA are the two poorest states in the country, those women aren’t going to be able to afford to go out of state to get an abortion, but the right wing legislators know that which is why they’re going full on stupid with their laws. Is it a coincidence that those two states have the highest population of people of color? And they have the most restrictive abortion laws on the books for when this goes into effect? Of course not
 

TerryP

Misomaniac
Ivory Club
I’m fine with a time frame, whether that’s 12 weeks or whatever, but there was no reason at all to reverse R v W. Men shouldn’t be deciding what a woman can and can’t do with her body and this is essentially forced birth.
This is another false premise. You keep saying "men shouldn't" but disregard there are women who are in both house and senate positions in each state. These are the individuals who'll be making the laws in each state: duly elected, by both men and women. Since this is an Alabama site...you realize that there are more women in the state than men, right? It's the same way in 40 of the 50 states. The biggest variance is found in Alaska: 52% male.

I’m fine with a time frame, whether that’s 12 weeks or whatever,
If I understand what you're saying here, it doesn't matter if it's 12 weeks or nine months?

there’s a push by the right to rid women of body autonomy & force them to give birth.
Can you cite the groups that are pushing this agenda? I don't mean citing a report suggesting there are such groups. I specifically mean point us to these groups and where they're stating that's their agenda.
I simply don’t see why there needed to be a change in the law
Herein lies your rights, as a man, to exercise your civic duty. Vote for the individuals that believe as you. You firmly believe this way, voice your opinions through your votes.
MS and LA are the two poorest states in the country, those women aren’t going to be able to afford to go out of state to get an abortion, but the right wing legislators know that which is why they’re going full on stupid with their laws. Is it a coincidence that those two states have the highest population of people of color? And they have the most restrictive abortion laws on the books for when this goes into effect? Of course not
You're only half right to start this narrative. Mississippi does have the most restrictive on record. LA isn't in the top five.

Mississippi's laws allow abortions up to 16 weeks. Also included in these laws are "triggers" that allow abortions if it threatens the mother's health or is a result of rape.

Here's where you have to be careful with wording. MS and LA are not the two states with the highest population of people of color. They have the highest percentage, yes. Texas, Florida, Georgia, New York, to name four, have higher numbers.

Let's consider this in closing. These people of color you're speaking of, shouldn't they have the right to choose how the abortion laws are written in their states of residence?

 
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