| FTBL NCAA partially bans Indian mascots

Do you agree with the NCAA decision to ban Indian mascots?

  • No, there are deeper issues to be resolved

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Tydegrrl

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Sorry, Seminoles...

I think this is pretty ridiculous. The inmates are running the asylum. There are more players being suspended for assault, theft, whatever, and the NCAA is more concerned with mascots and the almighty PC bullcrap. :roll: :roll:

So, what are some thoughts out there? Has this been a long time coming? Or is it yet another example of NCAA ineptitude and willingness to fry one issue in avoidance of another?
 

Tideboy

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This is the most asinine PC mess. I live close to Oklahoma and half the HS mascots have to do with "Braves, Redmen, etc." I could see if a team was called the "savages" or something like that, but this is over the top.
 
G

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Tell me about it. What a bunch of crap. What's next? No animal mascots? Not playing on grass because it might hurt the grass's feelings? The NCAA has truly gone too far.
 
G

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Maybe we should become the ALABAMA RED WATER (as Crimson may offend someone that really likes the color RED and as TIDE may cause issue with the pro Detergent people).

How much longer before the schools themselves get sick of this crap and start bolting for the NAIA? I wish it would happen today.

RTR
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G

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The NCAA is stupid. :x I am so sick of political correctness I could spit.
 
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imported_porkchop

I signed as well. There is very little that I hate more than political correctness, and that's all this is. The same ole PC BS. I doubt the use of Indian mascots and nicknames is nearly as big a deal to most Native Americans as it is to crazy a$$ white people who think they have to save the world.

I'm two parts American Indian myself (Cherokee and Choctaw) and not in the least bit offended by the nicknames or mascots. I've always apreciated teams that take up these names and mascots because it usually signifies (in my mind anyway) traits like tenacity, fortitude, physical prowess and honor. Native Americans are/were proud people and I have always viewed these names and mascots in that light.

I doubt schools are adopting these nicknames because they are racist or deem Indians as inferior. That just makes no sense. If that is the attitude, then these people hate their own schools.

I mean, is FSU's Seminole throwing down the flaming spear (gauntlet) and daring you to cross the line not one of the coolest traditions in college football?

It's not a lack of respect in my opinion. Some people just need a new hobby!
 
G

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I just wonder how long it will be before PAUAC (People Against the Use and Advertisement of Condems) will start complaining and USC and Troy will have to change their name?

:D
 

Crimson_Pride

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Somebody finally clicked "Yes, it was about time."

Why is that? Just curious.

For a minute, I thought we were gonna have a shutout.
 
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imported_porkchop

Ratto talks about the ban, and the ineviteble PETA lawsuit that is sure to follow. Don't forget about the religious front, the insect freaks, the Audubon Society, alcoholics, and the Weather Channel. :lol:

ESPN.com

The NCAA can look like it is doing something while doing essentially nothing, a task at which it is particularly skilled.
:lol:
 

nicodemus

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It doesn't really affect me personally, but I'm all for whatever the Indians want. I have an Indian friend in Oklahoma that is vehemently against the Indian names, so I defer to his judgement.

Also, I'm for whatever gives Florida State a hard time. :D
 

bear facts

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porkchop said:
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Porkchop, I agree with most of what you are saying, as does my wife who is 100% Native American. She doesn't even have a problem with the nickname "Redskins," but can you imagine the stir that would be created if there was a team named the Washington Blackskins?

It is also interesting to see how different tribes and tribal members react toward this subject. Some are not bothered by the mascots; in fact, embrace it as honoring them, while others are vehemently opposed, saying that it reinforces negative stereotyping, you know, the wild Indian on the warpath routine.

Now what really irritates my wife, though, is the old Cleveland Indian logo with the big nose chief and his mouth full of large teeth. She does not take too kindly toward that.

Btw, why isn't the NCAA coming down on the Fightin' Irish or Demon Deacons or Cowboys or Hoosiers or Sooners or Spartans or Trojans or Gauchos? Seems like the same reasons would apply when it comes to these names. Surely this organizational body would not resort to DOUBLE STANDARDS?

As my wife says when this topic comes up, "There are more important things for tribes to lobby for/against or to devote their time and efforts toward that this!"

Just curious, Porkchop, when you say 2 parts, what do you mean in terms of bloodline %?
 
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imported_porkchop

I agree Factor. Some of the mascots are offensive. I can see an uproar with things like the Redskins, which does seem a bit like a backhanded compliment. The Cleveland logo as well.

As far as my folks go, both of my mother's parents are half. My grandmother's family is originally from the Carolina's and she's half Cherokee. My grandfather is half Choctaw. He looks more native american of the two (the nose, darker complection). He was also very clean cut when he was younger and had that lack of body hair that we normally attribute to native americans.

One thing about my grandfather too is that you know the Choctaws were pretty much confined to the southwest area of Alabama. My grandfather's family originally migrated from Macon Ga (way back in the day) and then settled in West Alabama, above TTown. I've always thought it would be interesting to know how his parents met, especially with Choctaws not native to our particular area.

My great-grandmother (his mother) was the native and his father was German, and somehow they met up. Now you got all this wonderfulness that is CHOP! :lol:

One thing about my grandfather too is that his father Willie died young, but my grandfather still grew up "white". I always thought that was interesting, though I never felt the need to ask my grandfather about it. I suspect that he continued the only lifestyle that he ever knew as a boy. I have never interpreted it as being ashamed of who he was. It's not like he ever really talked about it, but I never viewed it as being suppressed either. It was just the way it was.

I suspect in that day and age the family made the decision to live the "white" lifestyle for obvious reasons. Native Americans might call it selling out, but my folks would probably call it self-preservation. There's two sides to every story I guess.
 

nicodemus

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bear facts said:
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Well, in the case of Notre Dame, it was a school started primarily by Irish Catholics, so it's not even the same argument. If Indians had started and/or named the current schools, then it would be a moot argument.

Cowboys applies to a profession, not an ethnic group.

I don't see what Demon Deacons has to do with the argument.

"Sooners" was a term to describe people that made a claim on land, and while they were almost certainly all white, probably another case of people calling themselves something and not representative of an ethnic group.

There aren't any Spartans living in the USA. Heck, there's only 19,000 in Greece and that town was rebuilt by King Otto in the 19th Century, and the nickname certainly hearkens to the ancient Spartans.

Troy doesn't even exist.

A gaucho is nothing more than a word used in some South American countries for what we call cowboys. It doesn't denote an ethnic group, it's even a last name in Brazil (see the famous Brazilian soccer player Ronaldinho Gaucho.)

I think what a lot of people don't like (including my Indian friend) is the s stereotypical images it portrays. Your wife points out the Cleveland Indians mascot for one, but my friend points to things like the Seminoles mascot, (i.e. a white guy dressed up like an Indian and acting goofy), not to mention the days when the Atlanta Braves had Chief Knockahoma (don't know if they still do, I stopped following baseball years ago) and a teepee set up in the middle of the stands at Fulton County Stadium.

Obviously, your wife is entitled to her opinion (and it holds more weight than mine), but I'm just pointing out why I don't think those other nicknames are "loaded" like the Indian ones are.

I remember an ad in Sports Illustrated several years ago taken out by and Indian group that had the Cleveland Indians pennant, and then had a bunch of fake pennants made up for the Kansas City Caucasions, the New York Jews, Philadelphia Negros, etc. In that light, it does make them seem kind of ridiculous (at least to me.)
 

Crimson323

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In South Dakota there is a Basketball team known as the Fighting Whities.
Hilarious! :D Native American team.
 

Tigrinum Major

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nicodemus said:
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I might be wrong, but I believe that the Seminole for Florida State has to be someone with Seminole heritage. I don't recall that particular mascot "acting goofy" either. And the Seminole Nation leaders support the use of their name as a mascot for FSU.

Believe me, I am not on the side of the Noles very often, but in this case, it sounds like a group of white men speaking for Indians instead of Indians speaking for Indians.

Does any of this mean that the NCAA will move its offices from Indianapolis, Indiana?
 
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imported_porkchop

Troy doesn't even exist

Troy, as an inhabited location does not exist today but existed for something like 4000 years through history. They've unearthed something like 9 successive settlements built one on top of the other in the location that we call Troy (also known as Illium throughout ancient history) located adjacent to the Turkish town of Hisarlik. The ruins are there to prove that it did exist.

Not arguing with you, just making a point is all. :) It might be one thing for the NCAA to ban the name "Big Foot" or PETA suing a school for using that mascot since there's never been any real proof that the creature exists. There's a difference.
 

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